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Old September 28th, 2014, 01:52 PM
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cleusk cleusk is offline
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Default Too Confounded For Words

I'm still trying to process this decision.
http://www.mynews13.com/content/news...raction_c.html
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Old September 28th, 2014, 07:25 PM
VanceCope VanceCope is offline
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

Let me explain...

Disney is company. The purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders.

Frozen is the highest grossing animated and the fifth highest film of all time. Frozen merchandise flew off the shelves as fast as it could be stocked. The meet and greet characters has seen lines up to 5 hours long over the summer. The franchise will end up making the company BILLIONS in the long run.

Norway is a rundown pavilion that no one visits except for the bakery or to eat a meal with the princesses in the restaurant. The Stave Church showcasing the culture of Norway used to have minimum visitors and usually just by people going in by accident until they installed an art of Frozen exhibit. Now the place is always busy. The ride, though decent capacity, is slow loading, out-dated, and kinda cheap looking. For most guests the entire ride experience is "oh cool one eye guy...are those suppose to be Vikings? ha, look at the troll...that polar bear looks really fake...oooh, more trolls...why the heck is there an oil derrick?...no we aren't stopping to watch some movie from the 80's about Norway...this gift shop smells like perfume and is giving me a headache, lets get out of here...take a picture of me pretending to pick the troll's nose while wearing this viking helmet 100 other people today have worn taking this same photo..." The actual of country of Norway has stated they have no intentions to invest more money into the pavilion to update the ride or film that has been the same since 1988.

So if you were a shareholder which would you prefer to have: a ride that will make people actually book vacations to see the new Frozen ride and bring more people into the pavilion to spend money OR the same stale ride that will never be updated if Norway doesn't pay for it.

All that said the Norway pavilion isn't going anywhere...it will still be there in spirit and name, it'll just have a different, more popular, ride.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 10:07 PM
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chazrobitaille chazrobitaille is offline
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

I hate to say it, but now I kind of see what you guys who miss the cave must have felt like. Of course, the Maelstrom isn't anywhere near as unique as the Cave was, and I'm sure the Frozen ride will be good, but I have a lot of fond memories of the Norway pavilion with my family, and I'll be sad that if I have kids, they won't get to see it. There is a shortage of atmospheric, educational (slightly boring to some) rides at epcot these days. One by one they have all fallen to franchise characters with massive improvements to throughput, but that doesn't make me miss the old attractions any less. The Living Seas (without Nemo), World of Motion, Journey into Imagination, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, ect. Educational and immersive just doesn't seem to do it for folks anymore...

- Chaz
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Old September 28th, 2014, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

I think the Frozen attraction will definitely revive a limping pavillion in a HUGE way. Disney offered Norway a chance to greatly upgrade the ride and pavillion, but they had no interest. EPCOT has always been operated like a World's Fair, with sponsors footing much of the bills. Who knows, the pavilion may be rebuilt one day for another country, but right now Frozen is the huge flavor of the year and the park will gladly take advantage (especially since it should help spread out the crowds a bit from the Magic Kingdom). I've never seen a "meet n' greet" with this kind of following in the parks --- ever. I'm sure the fuss will die down a bit over time, but i guarantee WDW's pockets will be much fuller in the meantime. As Vance said, the stockholders must be thrilled right now.
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Last edited by Twisted; September 29th, 2014 at 12:27 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazrobitaille View Post
I hate to say it, but now I kind of see what you guys who miss the cave must have felt like. Of course, the Maelstrom isn't anywhere near as unique as the Cave was, and I'm sure the Frozen ride will be good, but I have a lot of fond memories of the Norway pavilion with my family, and I'll be sad that if I have kids, they won't get to see it. There is a shortage of atmospheric, educational (slightly boring to some) rides at epcot these days. One by one they have all fallen to franchise characters with massive improvements to throughput, but that doesn't make me miss the old attractions any less. The Living Seas (without Nemo), World of Motion, Journey into Imagination, Honey I Shrunk The Audience, ect. Educational and immersive just doesn't seem to do it for folks anymore...

- Chaz
Both had their fans, but there indeed was a difference I think. The Cave was always drawing visitors, even right up until it was converted. The Norway pavilion simply wasn't. I personally loved the Maelstrom and have great memories, but it was definitely a bit dated, especially the tourism film.
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Last edited by Twisted; September 29th, 2014 at 12:25 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

My understanding was that the World Showcase attractions were supposed to promote the nation being represented. If you're going to replace a ride, at least have it focus somewhat on Norway. That's what got me confused. The idea of having a Frozen ride came completely out of left field.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleusk View Post
My understanding was that the World Showcase attractions were supposed to promote the nation being represented. If you're going to replace a ride, at least have it focus somewhat on Norway. That's what got me confused. The idea of having a Frozen ride came completely out of left field.
It's based on a classic European tale (The Snow Queen), but the look of the Disney version was mostly based on Norway's terrain, as well as their 19th century culture and fashions. True, it's based on fantasy creatures instead of reality, but so is 90% of the Maelstrom's storyline. I just wonder how well this will fit in with the other countries in World Showcase. Will the commercial element stick out like a sore thumb, or will other pavilions jump on the bandwagon as well? Perhaps Mulan (China), Beauty and the Beast (France), etc. could be next.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 11:22 AM
JABBS JABBS is offline
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

I like how the Disney dorks pick and choose their indignation. Pitch forks and torches for Frozen in Norway, but the backlot tour at the studios passes with nary a word (and rightly so).
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Old September 29th, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

Well, Disney kept downsizing the Backlot Tour until it was a tour no more. When it first opened, it took a looong time to complete. Then they started removing parts of it section by section. There's so little of it left, I wouldn't even call it a tour.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:39 PM
VanceCope VanceCope is offline
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Default Re: Too Confounded For Words

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleusk View Post
My understanding was that the World Showcase attractions were supposed to promote the nation being represented. If you're going to replace a ride, at least have it focus somewhat on Norway. That's what got me confused. The idea of having a Frozen ride came completely out of left field.
Twisted kinda already addressed it but the landscapes in Frozen are based heavily of the landscapes of Norway...if you see in my post about the Stave Church that's what the exhibit does, shows real pictures and culture of Norway and compares it to what was used in the film

Also, we haven't actually seen ANY kind of concept art for this attraction yet which is really odd for a Disney project so we don't even know what the ride will actually be when it reopens...given the short turn around time it is assumed the boat aspect and the layout will remain the same but the rumblings that I hear is that the current unload/exit will now serve as the entrance and loading/unloading area and the old loading area will get a show scene...this actually makes good sense as they can easily rip out the theater seats and make that a queue line (and still use the screen to showcase Frozen and Norway) and the fishing village where you currently get off would make a good starting off point with just a few changes and it's possible that it will still showcase Norway but with Frozen added in much like the Mexico ride with the 3 Caballeros

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistedmister View Post
Will the commercial element stick out like a sore thumb, or will other pavilions jump on the bandwagon as well? Perhaps Mulan (China), Beauty and the Beast (France), etc. could be next.
Most the countries already have a meet and greet with character from that country (or not)...Mexico has Fiesta Donald (from the 3 Caballeros who play a prominent role in the ride in the pavilion), Norway will have Frozen (to replace the current princess meal in the restaurant), Mulan in China, Snow White in Germany, Aladdin and Jasmine in Morocco (which really has nothing to do with the made up land of Agrabah which is suppose to be the middle east near the river Jordan but what do us dumb Americans know about that), Belle, Beast, Aurora and Marie (the white cat from Aristocats) are all in France, Pooh and Mary Poppins in the UK, and Canada will sometimes have lumberjack Donald and Goofy

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABBS View Post
I like how the Disney dorks pick and choose their indignation. Pitch forks and torches for Frozen in Norway, but the backlot tour at the studios passes with nary a word (and rightly so).
There were some that were indignant about it but the rumors of its demise have been around a while and really is a shell of its former self...Maelstrom isn't the only thing at Epcot going away though and people are in a tizzy about the changes being made to the life entertainment offerings like the celtic-rock band in Canada leaving after 20 some odd years (i never understood the theme of that one)

Of course these are the same fans that seem to cry over every change thinking it's not what Walt would...of course these aren't Walt's parks anymore...they are Disney's, as in the corporation and not the family...I just get tired of people judging Disney projects before they are even open...there was much hate heaped upon Cars-land in DCA before it opened complaining but I don't know anyone that has actually visited it and doesn't love how they made it a super imersive environment...people have/are still complaining about the fact the Avatar is coming to Animal Kingdom...while Avatar isn't my first choice of films to create a new land about when there is so many other properties Disney actually owns, I am holding off judgement of the area until it opens as I have faith that the imagineers will do something amazing with it, just like they will with Frozen
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